Cover Charge: Executive Coach Scott McElroy Opens Up

by 3rd + Lamar

Scott McElroy

Adoption, grief, self-sabotage, an unexpected pregnancy, a failed business venture, depression, self-acceptance, entrepreneurship, and gratitude.

Scott McElroy, an Austin-based executive and life coach, shares intimate details of his life to explain the path that led him to begin a new business helping other men heal. A self-described rebel practitioner, McElroy came to terms with his own personal trauma, but not before it wreaked havoc on his life, friends, and family.

Listen to Episode 2 of “Cover Charge,” and subscribers can view the full transcript below. “Cover Charge” is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, or Stitcher.

Cover Charge: Episode 2 Transcript

Nick Schenck: [00:00:00] What’s up, everyone? This is Nick Schenck, the host of the “Cover Charge” podcast. I’m here with Scott McElroy, my good friend and executive coach. Thanks Scott for joining.

[00:00:10] Scott McElroy: What’s going on, Nick? How are you doing?

[00:00:11] Nick Schenck: Doing pretty well, man. Doing pretty well.

[restrict]

[00:00:13] So Scott and I, we know each other from the Rosedale neighborhood in Austin. We are neighbors, and we run into each other quite a bit at the park. Our kids go to school together, and I’d say we met for the first time three years ago – I would say, maybe 3-4 years ago – and just kind of running into each other at the park, but we never developed a close friendship or anything.

[00:00:41] But over the years, I’ve gotten to know you better, and I found out that you have an entrepreneurial background and that you are now an executive coach, life coach. And from your past experiences that I’ve learned about you, I thought it was really interesting the path that you’ve been on to get to where you’re at now.

[00:01:03] And I wanted to bring you on because you’re really open about your story. And you’re doing what you’re doing because it’s coming from a good place. You genuinely want to help other people, and use the adversity that you faced to help other people.

[00:01:18] So let’s get into that. The first thing I want to talk about is when you talked to me about where you grew up. And you said you were adopted, but you didn’t describe it that way. You said, “I was relinquished,” and I’d never heard that before.

[00:01:35] Scott McElroy: Yeah, for me, that was this thing that comes with awareness, right. Because as kids, when we’re younger, we’re given the language that we use to talk about ourselves.

[00:01:50] If you were separated at birth and relinquished and sold in a financial transaction, you’re told that you were adopted. And then you’re told a bunch of other things along with that – like be grateful, like you were saved, you’re the lucky one, etc. Which for anybody that’s ever been separated from their biological family at birth, that’s not really the feeling. That’s not the experience. Of course, there is gratitude. There is love. There is all that, and I experienced a lot of that. But the bulk of the experience is feeling thrown away. Especially for me, it was very much feeling relinquished, and especially as I got older, right. Realizing, oh, I have this new awareness about myself and my experiences. I actually get to choose the language that I use to describe myself and describe my life. I don’t have to continue to use the language that was given to me. Which is extremely powerful, because the language that we use, especially the thoughts that we have about ourselves, are ultimately what determine our identities.

[00:02:49] Like if you’re this way, you’re skinny. If you’re this way, you’re fat. If you’re this way, you’re good ,or you’re this way, you’re bad. And obviously, none of that shit’s objectively true. That’s just the language that we’ve been given to describe ourselves. And yet with that language, we begin to develop our self identity, who we are, how the world around us works.

[00:03:10] So for me, being separated at birth, being a massive part of my story, that was definitely this extremely traumatic event that really shaped my life in a lot of different ways – some that I really wouldn’t really learn about and accept until my business failed, my family was kind of falling apart, my personal life was kind of falling apart, and then realizing like, “Oh, okay, this is here.” So as that awareness developed, really taking ownership like, “Oh no, no. My experience is this. I’m going to use this language around it, because that’s authentic to me.”

[00:03:43] Nick Schenck: And on your website, though, you even take it a little further. You said, “I was sold for $6,500,” which is kind of harsh language.

[00:03:52] Has there been any pushback from people who are like, “Dude, you were adopted, you should be more grateful. You shouldn’t describe it this way.” And what’s your response to that?

[00:04:05] Scott McElroy: Sure. Yeah, there’s definitely pushback. I mean, of course there’s pushback, not so much from like my biological or adoptive families. There’s some, for sure. But just as a whole, what’s familiar and what we’re given is – there’s this identity as a society that, “Hey, stick to the plan.” You know, like, “Play your part. If you’re adopted,  you’re adopted.” That’s the word that we use to describe this experience.

[00:04:31] And anytime you start to bring change to that internally and externally, there’s resistance. So there’s definitely this pushback of like, “You’re being dramatic,” or like, “Be grateful,” or etc. etc. And you know, there’s a reaction to that. There’s some pain in that of like, “Oh, you’re just continuing to invalidate or dismiss my experience with the words that I choose to use about it, which I have the right to do.” You know, I’m a man, you’re a man. I get to choose how I describe myself. So there’s always going to be that resistance.

[00:05:05] But you know, for me, knowing that my authenticity is my truth. This was my experience. This is how I feel, you know? And those feelings led to beliefs that led to thoughts, which led to experiences that really shaped my life and that of my family. So it’s like, “No, you can feel the way about it, the way that you feel about it, but for me, it’s this way.”

[00:05:25] And just accepting that is kind of healing. It’s certainly healing.

[00:05:29] Nick Schenck: So you were born in Amarillo. Then you grew up in East Texas.

[00:05:34] Scott McElroy: Yup. Shout out Lufkin, Texas.

[00:05:37]Nick Schenck: Lufkin, Texas. And when you were growing up in Lufkin, you were close with your adoptive mother, and then she got cancer and passed away. What was that experience like, and what was it like after that?

[00:05:50] Scott McElroy: Yeah. That was the beginning of my real awareness of myself because yes, my adoptive mom and I were extremely close. Right, that’s my mom. And using kind of the adoptive mom – or this kind of secondary labeling language – is something that didn’t start until way later. And then, so when she got cancer and then got sick and she died, my entire life blew up. I’m 15 years old. I’m a sophomore in high school. Your mom dies. Your whole attachment system is shaken, which as an individual, as a child, means that your survival is more at risk.

[00:06:35] So that was a really tough experience, obviously, to just go through as a kid. I loved my adopted dad. He was cool. He gave me a lot of cool things that he did, but he and I really weren’t that close, especially we weren’t as close as he and my older brother are.

[00:06:51] And then really what happened was, my adoptive father really began to disassociate from the experience. He was obviously devastated, losing his wife. Now he’s left with a 15-year-old and a 16-year-old, two adopted kids. We’re going through our adolescent experience, which for most separated or relinquished or adopted kids, is the time where you really start to see the true feelings. You really start to see this real behavior. And as a whole, he basically just continued to disassociate and eventually just abandoned us all together, where he was very emotionally not present. And then was just very physically not present, where he was looking for a new partner, started dating this woman in Houston about two hours south of Lufkin, and was just gone. And then through that experience, I was like, “Fuck this, what’s going on?”

[00:07:46] There was pain and sadness beneath that, but there was also this anger of like, “Fuck this.” And I ended up moving out of the house when I was 17, packed a bag, moved in with my best friend at the time, Matt Gandy. Matt, I love you. And then really I continued to bounce around from friend’s house to friend’s house.

[00:08:05] Looking back now, I know that was this experience that really brought up a lot of these deeply unconscious feelings for me, because as a baby, my whole life, I’ve known that I was relinquished. I knew that that initial trauma was there deep in my body, but consciously it was never top of mind.

[00:08:24] And then as the experience grew of like losing my mom and then really losing my dad. You know, that sense – especially from my father – that sense of abandonment came more and more to the surface. And more and more of my behavior was – it was just eratic.

[00:08:41] Nick Schenck: You talked about the archetypes of kids who are adopted. Explain that for a second, because I’d never heard of that before.

[00:08:49] Scott McElroy: Yeah. so for adopted kids, there’s generally two archetypes that you’re going to have in an adoptive family. One is going to be a very compliant kid, very – going to get good grades, going to be popular, going to do whatever he has to do to please you, to be accepted. That way, you don’t leave. That way, another abandonment isn’t gonna come. That’s an offense against abandonment. And that was me. I was very compliant, just super sweet, beautiful kid. But like really developing this false self of, “I’ll do whatever I need to do so you don’t abandon me.” New mom and dad, [I had] friends at school, I was very popular, captain of the basketball team, homecoming king, I think.

[00:09:33] And the other archetype is one that’s going to prove to you that you’re going to abandon them already, right? Their defense against a future abandonment is to just push you the fuck away as far as possible with their behavior that shows that you’re not worth keeping. And that was really my older brother, and growing up, he was just very demonstrative. Especially with my mom, [he] was always mad at her, always acting out really. And  what happens is, you get labeled as a bad kid. You get labeled as that kid. And I got labeled as a good kid, and then even your adoptive parents will begin to treat you that way.

[00:10:14] Even though both of us are having the exact same internal experience, which is one of deep trauma and deep abandonment and deep fear of rejection. And yet, yeah, a relinquished or adopted kid will just deal with that in typically one or two ways, but especially if you have two adopted children in the same house, those archetypes are extremely commonly present. One kid is going to take on the other.

[00:10:39] Nick Schenck: Despite the things you went through in high school, like you said, you were captain the basketball team and you went to UT. Great school. You were super involved at UT, but you were still carrying all this stuff. And one thing that impressed me about you is you’re very open and transparent about going to seek help and seeing a therapist while you were in college.

[00:11:01] I still feel like for guys, there’s a stigma attached to that.

[00:11:05] Scott McElroy: Definitely.

[00:11:06] Nick Schenck: I’ve seen a therapist. It was super helpful to me just to clarify what decisions I needed to make in my life professionally.

[00:11:16] Talk about what path led you to seeing a therapist and what that’s done for you.

[00:11:25] Scott McElroy: Yeah. Even thank you for sharing that because, again, it’s like, the stigma around men seeking healing and even help is – it’s very present. Maybe not as strong and present as it has been in the past – where our fathers were probably.

[00:11:40] Nick Schenck: My dad’s a psychiatrist, so, yeah, it’s a little different in my family.

[00:11:44] Scott McElroy: Yeah. But that’s got its own unique thing, too.

[00:11:48] But for me, I was 19 when I first went to a therapist in Austin. I went to Deep Eddy Psychotherapy. I met with Charlotte Howard and Tori Olds, and they’re wizards. Just really were able to give me exactly what I needed in that time. And still do to this day. They’re a large part of my continued support. But basically, I was just  destroying myself.  I was like  really self-sabotaging my entire life where, I was in a relationship with a beautiful girl who I was in love with, and I was cheating on her. I was pushing her away.

[00:12:24] I had great friends and I had this one experience where I basically had this kind of hookup with one of my best friend’s girlfriend at the time. I was fucking everything up, like big time. And I like to think that I’m – you know, I don’t like to think – I’m very smart and I have awareness of, if I put my mind to something, I’m going to be great at it. My grades were terrible. All of these organizations that I’d worked so hard to like become a part of, I would be accepted and get into these things like these very competitive things, and then I would just like, fuck off.

[00:13:00] Then I would completely just sabotage those experiences. And eventually you do that long enough and your pain threshold gets high enough, and you start to realize like, “Oh wow, like now I’m in a fiery pit of hell, and there’s nobody around me because I’ve pushed everybody away and I need help. Where do I go? What do I do?”

[00:13:22] Nick Schenck: How’d you go from like high school people-pleaser to going to college and it totally turned.

[00:13:30] Scott McElroy: That’s really just part of the progression. Right? Because that people-pleasing is just a false self, right? Like that’s a mask that we all put on in different ways to either not be abandoned or not be rejected, or to be accepted. And we can all relate to that, right? Like my details are a little bit on the extreme side, so to speak, relatively, really. But like, that was all this false self and that false self is unsustainable. It just takes too much effort to continue to lie to yourself. It just takes too much effort to like continue to put on the mask and put on the front to be in the fraternity or to get the girl, or to be liked by your friends, or to be cool or whatever. And you know, as that unhealed trauma, as that unhealed pain continues throughout time, your behavior begins to shift. But you begin to project more.

[00:14:22] Things that you used to be able to like suppress and push down and like mask and hide – to where nobody would know – soon become more out in the open. Soon you start – your language is different. Everything you do starts to really change. And so that was a demonstrative period for me of like, just being, so, you know, we talked about this last time, you’re getting your ass kicked in the dark.

[00:14:45] You’re getting your ass kicked in the dark. You don’t know what’s going on. And eventually you just find yourself like, “Oh, like where’s the light?” Desperately crawling for the light. And for me at that time, that was like, I reached out to Jenna, my girlfriend at the time. now my beautiful partner and wife. Because I knew she had gone to therapy. She was much more mature and aware than I was at the time. Thank God she was, too. And then she had a recommendation for the therapist that I went to see. And then that was the beginning of, yeah, that was really the, maybe not the full beginning of the healing experience, but the conscious healing experience of like, “I need help. This isn’t working.”

[00:15:30] Nick Schenck: And you and Jenna, you weren’t necessarily together at the time. You were still talking. But then, you and Jenna got pregnant at 21 with your son. And that was a pivotal moment. What was your reaction to that and how did people around you react to that?

[00:15:50] Scott McElroy: Yeah, well for me, the moment that…We were not together at the time. We’d been together for most of our lives, from middle school to high school, and then in college. But at this particular time, she was finally like, “This is not good for me. You’re toxic as hell. Get away from me.” And then we had slowly started to come back together, enough to get pregnant. And yet as a child that was relinquished, as an adopted child -and this is a common experience for adoptees as well – I was ecstatic, because I’m about to meet somebody that has my blood. This unborn kid, my soon-to-be, unborn kid is like the first person that I’ll ever know that has this biological connection with me.

[00:16:39] That was like the first split second, and also like, I knew deep down that I loved this woman. I knew it deep, deep, deep. It was super deep, because on the surface, I could really rationalize, “Like this doesn’t work. Get away. Like love equals pain. Connection equals pain.”

[00:17:00] So yeah, in this like split second, I remember sitting on her bed over in Hyde Park and being like, “Yes.” You know, like really having this like celebration moment, even though we were 21, seniors in college, had no. idea of what was going to come next and really no way of like really being aware of what that situation is at all.

[00:17:23] But immediately there was this celebration for me and then kind of the mind took over and we very quickly rationalize having an abortion. Like we’re too young. We’re not even together. This doesn’t make sense. Which is, again, like an extremely common experience, right? And so from there, I remember we drove, we were in Austin, we drove to San Marcus and back just trying to like process like, “What the fuck? Oh my God,” You know, “Not us.” Like, “This can’t happen to us.” You know, you read about this, it doesn’t happen to you. And yeah, for like three weeks, we were kind of just like holding on to that secret, and we’re very much taking steps to not have a baby. And it was in an abortion clinic in Austin where we had actually just gone through this whole process and we were kind of at the end of that process, like, “Okay, let’s go.” And I was there with her and we were certainly there together.

[00:18:21] And it was in that moment that we were both just kind of like, “What the fuck are we doing here? You know, like where slightly the true selves of us were just able to like have a moment and be like, “What are we doing here? You know, like, “I love you. You love me. Who gives a shit about what we’re supposed to be doing?Or like, you know, we’re too young or what?” Like again, coming back to the language of like being told who you are and what life is and how it works. Like you get pregnant at 21, you have an abortion, or that was certainly the world that we lived in.

[00:18:55] Nick Schenck: Most people though who were adopted at birth, I imagine that the idea of having an abortion would seem really like nothing they would ever consider. Did you connect those thoughts at all or not?

[00:19:14] Scott McElroy: Not much, actually. It’s actually really interesting that you bring that up, because undoubtedly that was this very unspoken urge in me that like, “This is not right.” Not right for me. Right? People’s decisions are right for them often, but for me, that wasn’t what I wanted, and that wasn’t what Jenna wanted. And yeah, really in that moment, it was this pivotal moment that I will never forget, this is one of the beautiful scenes in my movie where we were just in this like kinda jank-ass waiting room, really in this traumatic space for months really. And then kind of just coming together and be like, “Let’s get out of here.” And that being the time of like, “You know what? I don’t know how the hell we’re going to do this, but I’m going to commit to you, and you’re going to commit to me. And I know there’s a bunch of pain in between here and where we want to go, but like, I’ll sign up for that shit.

[00:20:09] And then, yeah, a year later, you know, Jenna was a ChiO at UT. I was a Kappa Sig. I was a Texas Cowboy. We had to really wade through all of this social experience of, “We’re 21, pregnant. And yeah, we’re about to graduate college ahead of time, and then have our son.” Christian Sawyer.

[00:20:36] Nick Schenck: He’s a beautiful kid.

[00:20:37] Scott McElroy: He is. Thank you.

[00:20:39] Nick Schenck: I applaud the fact that not only did you make that decision, but you were able to get your career on the fast track. You got a job at Robert Half and were doing really well for yourself. Making good money in Houston. But then you made the decision, a very risky decision, to start a business. In a situation like that where you’re trying to support a young family, making a big risk like that doesn’t seem logical, but you did it. Why did you do it? And explain how that went.

[00:21:15] Scott McElroy: Yeah. You know, looking back now. This is honestly a clear example of my self-sabotaging nature. Because I was in a great spot. I was in a great spot. I was making more money than I ever thought I’d be making at 23. I had married the woman of my dreams. We had a beautiful child.

[00:21:33] We were set up in Rice Village in Houston, which was gorgeous. I knew that I wanted more, right? I could see in my life, like I don’t want to do this forever. I could make half a million dollars a year, it’d be great, but is this what I want? Is this what I want to get out of life?

[00:21:53] But you can build up to that, right? You can put some bread away. Learn more, learn a lot more. And then step out. So like, as a whole, looking back now, that was genuinely, that was this example of self-sabotage. Which like is, again, now being about to turn 30, this consistent theme in my life of, “Okay, I can make money, I can make bread. I’m capable, I’m good, and yet I will lose it. I also know how to lose that shit. If it’s coming to me, oh fuck like, let me not enjoy it or have it or like secure myself or be comfortable too long, because you know, eventually it’s going to run out and eventually the whole world’s going to blow up.” Much like my world blew up bothwhen I was 15 and like when my world blew up when I was born. So like rather than wait until that happens – because it’s definitely going to happen because that’s how life works, that was certainly the subconscious beliefs that I had – let me just sabotage it, and in these very unconscious, unspoken, completely unaware ways. Which we can also like typically find evidence like, “Oh, this is a good idea.” The brain will justify, like, “Scott, you’re smart as anybody. You know how to work hard. Start a business.” Mark Zuckerberg, this, you know, this guy is this, like, you’re as good as they are.

[00:23:14] And sure, like, I believe those things, but at the same time, looking back now, it’s like, “I love the gumption I had. I love the confidence.” But it’s like, we could be a little smarter, you know? And when money comes and things come that I want, it’s okay to receive them. Before, like the moment that they’re in the door, I’d be like, “Okay, like fuck, let’s go. Let’s leave this great job with a bunch of people I love and a great situation where I’m making tons of money and move my whole family.” We broke our lease in Houston. We moved back to Lufkin. Jenna and Christian lived with her family for the next like three months. And I went to Los Angeles and basically started the Entertainment Helping Company, which eventually became a company called Everybody Helping. And really it was my goal to build the mobile donation platform. There’s Classy and there’s GoFundMe and a handful of those companies in a market that has done nothing but skyrocket.

[00:24:17] And really the vision was at the time of like, JJ Watt giving $30  million to Hurricane Harvey, but doing that through my platform. And that was back in 2011. Or 2013. So I knew this market opportunity was there, but basically just jumping in the way that I did it was truly this perfect example of self-sabotage.

[00:24:39] Nick Schenck: What was the hardest lesson you learned?

[00:24:43] Scott McElroy: Hardest lesson I learned. Great question. Because there’s several. I think the hardest lesson I learned was that I’m already good enough. Because even looking back, I was really just trying to prove to myself and everybody around me that I was worth keeping, that I was good enough, that I was smart enough, that like the way that my father had abandoned me, or the way that my bios had abandoned me, that they fucked up. You know, like you’re going to learn. And again, that was very subconscious. At the time, I really had no awareness about that. Because inevitably what happened when my intention for that business was what it was, which was again, really to just show people how valuable and cool and smart I am. Watch, I’m going to build this cool thing and be super rich.

[00:25:38] It inevitably failed. And in that failure, I like eventually became suicidal. Because I had put all of my worth and all of my validation in these external things, whether these certain people or like these certain accolades or groups or like money, that whenever it wasn’t there, I had nothing left to fall back on.

[00:26:03] Nick Schenck: Previously, you talked about returning from L.A. to Lufkin and feeling like a failure because you didn’t get the traction in L.A. that you had thought. And we talked about people telling themselves stories, and in your head, you’re like, “Oh, I’m going back to Lufkin, and everyone’s going to be like, ‘Yeah, Scott came back and he failed in L.A.'” When in fact, probably people were like, “Oh, it’s good to see Scott again.” Maybe his business didn’t work out, but I’m sure he’ll do fine the next thing. And you know, everyone tells themselves stories internally. I do it all the time. At the time, it was hard for you to separate the stories you were telling yourself from reality, right?

[00:26:46] Scott McElroy: Oh, big time.

[00:26:48] Nick Schenck: Talk about the tailspin that ensued.

[00:26:50] Scott McElroy: Yeah. And that’s such a great point. Just like the nature of the brain, we learn everything in stories, right? So me going to L.A., like this is the hero’s journey. I’m going to go slay the dragon, and I’m going to be the hero.

[00:27:06] And then when that dragon eats your ass for breakfast and like spits you back out to your small hometown, you’re trash. You failed. And those were the stories that I was telling myself. And again, it’s a slippery, slippery slope. So slippery. Starts with one statement, one question, one thought, and that tailspin grew and grew and grew over years, right? This was like from 2013 to really 2016, I was full-blown suicidal. Had a suicidal episode. You go from being like, “Oh yeah, I’m great. Like I have all this confidence in myself to be as smart and successful as anyone,” to, “That was all lies. Like I thought I was, but I’m not.” You know, like, “Oh, look at this, this happened.” And then we have this emotional experience of feeling less than, of feeling bad. And then the brain goes and finds all the evidence of why that’s true. You know, your business failed. You lost this money. You fucked up this relationship. You fucked up this meeting. Your product wasn’t right. You don’t know shit about software. You hired bad developers. You didn’t know who to hire. You didn’t know what to do. And then that starts to compound. Poof. It compounds hard and it compounds fast.

[00:28:28] Nick Schenck: You talked about the suicidal episode, when you were on the brink, what pulled you back? And talk about what that was like. In previous conversations, you explained it really vividly.

[00:28:45] Scott McElroy: Yeah, and it’s interesting to think about now, being about three years removed from it. The brink was really a couple streets from where we are now.

[00:28:57] I knew I was about to lose $150,000, right? And I didn’t have money like that. This money had kind of come to me. I’d inherited it when my grandmother passed, and I knew that this was just the perfect jump-off for me to go from $150k to like $1 million and then $1 million to $10 million and $10 million to $100 million, etc. And then my whole life was that. So not only is that not happening, but I kind of just fucked over my whole family’s financial future to a certain degree, especially in the immediate. That tailspin. You know, I was equally as worthless as I would have been valuable had it gone successful.

[00:29:38] Right. And being in Rosedale in Austin, Texas, truly one of the premier neighborhoods in all of the world, right? I mean, as far as Austin’s always the number one place to live in all these polls and lists. Rosedale is as cool as any place to live within the city. I live in this neighborhood for six years, live in a beautiful house that I really can’t afford, but like my life is beautiful. It’s fantastic. I’ve got two beautiful children. I’ve got a smoking hot wife. I have money. I still have like bread in the bank, like I’m good. And yet the stories had been compounding for a couple of years now to where I felt just like I didn’t deserve to live. You know? Like I felt like everybody around me is going to be better off when I’m dead.

[00:30:26] To not have to hold such a needy person, to not have to be around such helpless energy, to like, you know, not have to exist around such false confidence and etc. Like the thoughts are mean. It’s like, I can’t even think about killing somebody else.

[00:30:44] That just doesn’t make much sense. Right? Like, and of course, we can play that game of like, you know, if they’re coming at me, like, whatever, probably in that situation, but like, as a whole, like, I don’t want to be mean to you. Right? And that’s how most of us are. But like to ourselves, I was about to kill myself.

[00:31:02] Nick Schenck: Just beating yourself up constantly?

[00:31:03] Scott McElroy: Beating the shit out of myself. Just like telling myself all of these lies because I had been abandoned at birth.

[00:31:10] I had been abandoned like at 15 really in my most vulnerable moment. My mom had just died. At this point, I had also like reunited with my biological mother at this time. I was really experiencing what’s known as a second abandonment in that relationship, which is extremely common, but very, very painful.

[00:31:27] My business was failing. So I was kind of in this perfect little hurricane for Scott McElroy to feel the way that I was feeling.

[00:31:34] Nick Schenck: And during this time, are you cutting off communication with Jenna so she doesn’t really have an idea of all the depths of despair?

[00:31:42] Scott McElroy: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, she’s extremely intuitive, extremely perceptive. So she knew that something was super fucked. But like, you know, the day that this episode started was like, it’s a beautiful day. I come home from this little office space that I was at, you know, really was just so.. I didn’t know how to do all the big-boy business shit that I actually had to do at that time.

[00:32:05] So everything was overwhelming. Like this was a mountain that I knew I couldn’t climb. And this is – all of suicide is looking for relief. I just need it to stop. You know, I need this like internal ass-whooping, this internal abuse to just stop – like to the point where we value that relief over everything else in our lives, our relationships, our kids, our wife, etc.

[00:32:28] So I remember coming home, getting out of the car, walking in, and then just looking around like in this beautiful house, seeing [my son] Christian, seeing my son, Hendrix, seeing Jenna. And just like, I didn’t deserve it. Not only that I didn’t deserve it, I was holding them back.

[00:32:48] I was this big suck, this big drain on their beautiful life. They’ll be great, you know? She’ll meet another great man who’s way better than me. Take care of them. The brain will rationalize every detail. All of it. And so I remember walking out of the house, I kissed Christian on the head and got in my car.

[00:33:06] I knew there was this like nine millimeter in the car, and I grabbed a towel. And I was just going to lean my head against this towel against the window, drive to a little spot just over here in Ramsey [neighborhood] and then shoot myself in the head. And I remember sitting there for like an hour or so and really just like contemplating – if I open the glove box where I knew the gun was and I knew it was loaded, then I’m going to do it.

[00:33:36] And just like staring at like the opening to this glove box like, “You know, you going to do it? You going to do it? And just like all the while, like up till the very end, really just treating myself like shit, you know? And it was in this moment that really, this just like micro-thought of this image of my mom who raised me being like, “Baby, I don’t want you to do that.

[00:34:03] And then that sparking this other thought of Jenna being like, “Yeah, baby, I don’t want you to do that.” And then thinking about like my boy Ryan and my friend Matt Ganny and really sourcing it. And what this is, is the brain resourcing itself – even in these micro, micro ways.

[00:34:24] And as soon as there was just that glimmer of hope. And me believing that that is true: I believe that my mom doesn’t want me to do this. I believe that Jenna doesn’t want me to do this. I believe that Ryan doesn’t want me to do this – even though internally I had already rationalized that it was the best decision to do.

[00:34:43] I was planning. I already made a plan to do it. Like I’m taking multiple, multiple steps because I believe that this is the thing to do. Just hurt myself in the ultimate way. And the moment that there was that glimmer of light, I just remember taking a deep breath like, “Fuck.” And throwing my car in gear and then just racing back home.

[00:35:06] And I ran upstairs and shed all of my clothes. I remember this very vividly. And in the shedding of my clothes, really feeling like I was shedding a skin. And then I got in the bath and then I laid in the bath for like an hour, which is the brain resourcing itself because like the bath was always just like a very comfortable space for me.

[00:35:33] And then just laying there, and then my son Christian came up – and as a parent, this is very real because there’s days when you’re a parent or you’re a business owner or whatever, and you feel like, shit. You might be depressed, you might be super anxious, you might need something. And yet you’ve got your kids saying, “I need you, I need you, I need you.” Which can sometimes be extremely overwhelming. So I’m five minutes post almost killing myself all together. Christian has no idea. He comes upstairs and he’s like, “Daddy, are you okay?” And I’m like, “No, son. I’m not okay.” He’s like, “Daddy, are you sick?” I’m like, “Yes, I’m sick. I’m really, really sick.” And he’s like, “Okay, well hurry up and feel better because I want to go outside and play.” And I just remember being like slapped in the face with that, and then that being this like, yeah, okay, well I want Christian to play.

[00:36:31] I may feel like shit, but he deserves to go play, you know? And then like really mustering all of my emotional energy to just get out of the bath, throw on some new clothes, and then walk him up to the park. And that being the very beginning of  genuinely what’s been like a significant journey to being able to even talk about it this way.

[00:36:53] Nick Schenck: What else do you attribute to your comeback? I’ve been driving in the neighborhood in the morning after dropping the girls off, and I see you getting in a good sweat at the park. I imagine – you’re a real athletic guy – has exercise really helped you as well?

[00:37:10] Scott McElroy: Of course. Yeah, of course. The biggest thing is just realizing what was happening. Like, “Oh, I’m judging myself based on all of these other people’s actions. I don’t control them. I’ve relinquished all of my responsibility, all of my power to outside forces, to humans, who can do the dumbest shit on earth.” And part of that was what I’d experienced.

[00:37:40] You abandon somebody when they’re 15 and they’re super vulnerable. That’s a dumb-ass human thing to do. You relinquished your baby because you’re afraid that the church is going to disown you or some shit in Oklahoma. Like that’s some dumb-ass shit to do. Especially knowing how painful that is, because everybody involved is in immense trauma for life. Me, my biological mom, the adoptive parents, like everybody. So really establishing this moment, and this was the exact language. I remember using it. Like the next day after that [suicidal] episode, I was like, “Man, I fuck with myself. I like me.” You know? I took a shot and missed. I struck the fuck out. I struck out. I started a company. I had money. I did some dumb-ass shit that people will do if you’re young with no sweat equity but with more money. And that’s what happened.

[00:38:34] And that’s okay. Right? Like the company that I wanted to start would’ve been super, super cool. It would’ve been super, super valuable, too. And me who I realized that I was trying to create – the true self in me that was trying to come out – was just constantly being reinforced and rejected.

[00:38:56] Like, “You’re bad, you’re worthless, I’m going to leave you. My actions are going to show you the way that I feel about you.” And unless you have awareness about yourself, you’re going to internalize that, and then you’re going to treat yourself that way, down to the language we use, which is again coming back to, I don’t feel like I was adopted. I feel like I was thrown away. I feel like I was sold and relinquished. So I actually am going to say it that way, because for me, that gives me a little bit of agency in the situation where I had no agency. I’m getting transacted like a commodity, a literal commodity.

[00:39:26] So that was this big thing of first just accepting like, “Oh, what if I judge myself like the way that I feel about myself. What if I acknowledge like, “Oh, that’s okay. I don’t need to die.” It’s not like I see somebody else failing starting a company and I’m like, “Fuck them, they should die.”  That’s not something anybody does. We never would do that, because that sounds dumb. Right? That’s ridiculous. But internally, that was exactly what I was doing to me. So taking back my power and shifting the belief of like. “I’m valuable because I’m valuable, because I say so,” is what actual value is. That’s what actual love is. And then from that place, getting to a place of like, “Okay, exercise is good for me. Water is good for me. Talking about it is good for me. These relationships are good for me. These relationships are bad for me. Fuck them. I’m letting them go. All of these behaviors and these distractions that are bad for me, I gotta name them. I got to like label them. I got to identify them and then let them go. Otherwise, I’m giving them power over my life. That’s dumb, even though that’s how we’re conditioned to be. Once you have that awareness, once the light is on, so to speak, like you’re not getting your ass kicked in the dark, you’re like, “Oh, there’s the light. The light came on. Thank God.” I can see how kind of ridiculous this was. And then being like, “Oh, okay, well since the light is on, now I can exactly know that like, I need to get up and I need to work out. I need to sweat. I need to get my body at a place where like that morning anxiety, I just beat it out of my butt.”

[00:41:03] I don’t beat it. But I let it go. And then from there, just like establishing like, “What’s my favorite day? What do I want every day to be like.” Write that out, plan it out, and then do that. Right.

[00:41:16] Nick Schenck: When did your mindset shift to becoming a therapist?

[00:41:22] Scott McElroy: Once I started telling myself that therapy isn’t this bad thing, right? Because that was the connotation that I had of like, “Oh, I’m in therapy. That means I’m broken. I’m in therapy because I’ve been traumatized in ways that most people can’t relate to and I need to hide that part about myself. I need to shame that part about myself.” This being an entrepreneur, being a rich business man, this is the part of myself that I was really putting forward, and that’s a genuine part of me. I want to build cool shit. I’m not like super pro-capitalist, but there’s good things that come from it – like building cool companies and cool products and services change lives. They really do. And solving puzzles is fun. I enjoy that.

[00:42:12] So accepting therapy and not shaming that part, I was like, “You know what? I’m going to be a therapist. This was something that has been a major positive in my life. Let’s just go do that.” So, you know, that was really the next move for me. It was also very safe, as opposed to being an entrepreneur or starting your own business.

[00:42:33] It was kind of like being a dentist. Like there’s always going to be a job for a dentist. Thereapy, you know, I’m going to have clients. I’ll be okay. And then it was in therapy school, getting my masters, where I was like, “Damn, I’m taking out more student loans. They’re telling me about shit that I already know because I’ve lived this at this point, and I want to help people now, and I need money right now. My wife was the breadwinner and throughout this whole experience of me starting a business that failed, she started a very successful business right there next to me, like in the same house.

[00:43:12] And so like realizing, “Oh, like she can do that. She tells me that I can do it, too. She trusts me. She’s validating me. What if I marry these two things? What if I didn’t have to be a therapist? What if there is a way for me to really do therapy and serve people that way, but also help them build cool companies? What would that be like?

[00:43:34] Nick Schenck: Quick shout-out to Jenna McElroy. She’s a really talented photographer. She did our family photos for the holidays.

[00:43:41] Scott McElroy: She’s so good.

[00:43:41] Nick Schenck: Yeah, she’s great. So just had to do a quick plug, though.

[00:43:44] Scott McElroy: I love you, baby.

[00:43:46] Nick Schenck: So let’s talk about – not necessarily the elephant in the room – but the obvious thing is, I get hit up by executive coaches, life coaches all the time.

[00:43:58] As soon as I updated my LinkedIn profile to say I’m starting 3rd & Lamar, it seemed like a lot of people came out of the woodwork. There is a stigma attached to that. You talked previously in discussions we had that your psychologist or therapist had mentioned, “Hey, maybe you should be an executive coach or life coach.” What was your reaction to that?

[00:44:23] Scott McElroy: Oh, I had the same reaction that everybody does. I was like, “Fuck that.” And I was like, “What is that? That’s not a real thing. You know? Like that just means that you don’t have a job. That just means that you meet and have coffee with people and you talk about shit because it didn’t work out in corporate,” or something like that.

[00:44:43] So I immediately was like very resistant to like, “Yeah, I’m going to be a life coach.” That didn’t sound congruent, mostly because I didn’t understand it and there was this stigma associated with it like, “Oh, that’s not cool. That’s not a real thing.”

[00:45:02] And then the more it continued to just become more and more present in my life where I started paying attention to some known coaches. Like this guy Brendon Burchard especially, was very influential for me. I met my own business coach, Julian Rosen. And then my wife started working with a business coach, Darcy Benincosa, who really changed her life. And, thus by osmosis, changed my life. She’s just someone who has thorough knowledge of the brain, of the body, of the human experience. And it’s really right there with me of like, “Yeah, let’s take this awareness and apply it to whatever you want to apply it to. You want to build a cool company? Let’s put the structure to it and go do that.”

[00:45:50] Nick Schenck: Give me a sense of a couple of exercises that you go through with clients of yours.

[00:45:55] Scott McElroy: One of the things we do is we establish a daily morning routine. And it being really a foundation for your whole life.

[00:46:08] Like you do these things every single morning because you’re committing to yourself. These are things that I can afford not to do. And they’re often things that we tell ourselves like, “Oh, I don’t have time for that.” You know? And these are specifically like, we wake up, meditate, exercise, get into your body, get out of your head, get into your body. Typically, do those in the opposite order. Like I wake up and I go straight to the gym. I got to go outside, I exercise. And then once I get that out, then I’ll sit down and meditate. My body has moved, my mind is a lot more still, a lot more calm. I meditate, observe silence for 15 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever. And then I plan my day. And I was never a planner, like, “I need a planner. I’m going to plan every detail on my day.” And we plan our day. And gratitude journaling. In my planner right here, every single morning, three thank you’s.

[00:47:04] Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Jenna. Thank you, Parker. Right? And I associate that gratitude with a feeling like, “Thank you, Nick, for having me on this podcast. I feel very valued and respected, etc. And then the fifth one is read. Let’s get a book.

[00:47:23] Let’s make sure we’re constantly learning, constantly moving forward, even five minutes a day, 10 minutes a day. That’s on the daily. And then we do a handful of exercises at different points. Like Week 2, we do a prison-to-paradise exercise, where we basically get very, very clear about what your worst-case scenario is, which for me was like, “I bite off more than I can chew. I get super depressed, so I get super anxious. I’m super stressed and I kill myself.” And then we get super clear about your best-case scenario, like what you want. What’s a beautiful vision that you have for your life? Let’s start giving yourself permission to even just talk about it, to write about it.

[00:47:59] And that’s that paradise. And then from that paradise, we really draw like, okay, well, let’s start giving this shit real permission. Let’s stop telling ourselves that this is just a pipe dream, this really can’t happen, because the reality is, and if you look around close enough in life, there’s no rules. There’s a lot of perceived rules etc. But as a human, you really have the ability to do whatever you want. And we see those stories all over.

[00:48:26] Nick Schenck: Yeah, I think some things you just mentioned can help people who feel stuck. I think professionally, that’s the most common thing I hear from people, and that I experienced too, is like you just feel stuck.

[00:48:39] Like you need a paycheck, you’re getting paid maybe a good amount of money, but you’re not being fulfilled, and you feel like, “How do I get out of this situation?” But in the same time, maybe you feel guilty because you’re like, “These are champagne problems. I feel guilty for feeling like, not grateful that I’m in this situation, but you can’t ignore it, either.

[00:49:03] I will say just from playing pickup basketball, being around you, you definitely are a grateful person. I don’t think I played that well last week and pickup ball, but after the game, you’re like, “Man, Nick, you were balling out there.” You’re just very generous in your compliments and just a grateful kind of person that shows gratitude and values friendships.

[00:49:26] And I think that if those are lessons that you’re sharing with your clients or just friends in general, man, I think that’s powerful. The people that I gravitate toward are the people who show those characteristics. And it’s actually pretty rare. You don’t see that a lot.

[00:49:48] Scott McElroy: Especially amongst men. Like if I’m vulnerable and I say, “You did well,” then that must mean that I didn’t do that well. Or that must mean that, you’re going to take advantage of me. Or you’re going to fuck me over in business or something if I show you my cards or whatever language we use to describe those things.

[00:50:06] But as a whole, men, we have this negativity bias because that’s how the brain works. We focus more on our dangers and threats and the things that we’re not doing as well, because those are the things more likely to get us killed, right?

[00:50:21] Especially with the tiger lurking in a jungle in this primal sense, or like in business where, “Hey, if I don’t get these things done, then I’m not going to have money. And then, we’re gonna have to move, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” But to men, not only is this negativity bias there, but then we’re so ashamed, like, “Don’t talk about it, man up. Don’t cry. Don’t let them see you cry. Don’t be a pussy. Don’t be a bitch. Like all this common language that we use, and even in the way that we’ve been conditioned with being nice to one another, it’s like shit-talking, like, “Oh, blah, blah, blah. He’s just shit-talking you, right?”

[00:50:54] I’m trying to connect with you and say something nice or like connect with you, but like, I’m doing so in a way that’s talking shit. Do we have to do that? We don’t have to, because what happens is we normalize that and then we accept it and then it’s like, “Oh, bro gave me a compliment. That feels weird, right?” That’s a strange thing, and then we internalize that even more where we don’t celebrate our wins. I can’t feel good about myself because I’m just so conditioned to really never give myself permission to feel good about myself.

[00:51:28] Even that example you give is like, I’m kind of tempted to just coach the shit out of you. Because the truth is, it’s like you’re clearly not seeing yourself the way that everybody else sees you. Like there’s this self-image here. Where does that come from? Because the truth is, you hooped. Like you literally were the best player on the court, and we won most of our games. And you were hitting a lot of tough shots.

[00:51:49] Nick Schenck: I appreciate that.

[00:51:50] Scott McElroy: Isn’t that so interesting, because you can go out and hoop. And do well, perform well, like the thing that you really enjoy doing and doing it really, really well.

[00:52:03] And then like walk away being like, “Damn.”

[00:52:05] Nick Schenck: You focus on the negatives.

[00:52:09] Scott McElroy: Bro, you go like seven for 10 and you’re like, “Fuck, I missed three shots.” And then you beat yourself up about it. Same thing happens in business. Same thing happens in relationships, where we are just so hyper-conditioned to focus on these negative things where the evidence shows that we’re winning. You’re winning, bro. Like we’re winning. And whenever we can’t accept that we’re winning, whenever we’re winning, guess what? That means you never get to win. Beause when you lose, you’re just like, “Oh, okay.”

[00:52:38] Nick Schenck: Then you’re just living a life of self-loathing.

[00:52:40] Scott McElroy: Pretty much.

[00:52:43] Nick Schenck: Describe a quintessential client for you. What is the typical person you work with, and you only work with guys, right?

[00:52:52] Scott McElroy: Correct. Yeah. I only work with men, mostly because that’s been my experience. Obviously, I’m super passionate about my healing and my growth journey, and I really see the need where like, bro, men are hurting, right?

[00:53:09] Men don’t have any less emotions than women. We like to like tell fables and stories like that, that women are somehow more emotional than us. But no. All humans have the exact same emotional experience. And yet, men are just so conditioned to suppress and not talk about it and push it down.

[00:53:26] And that’s why suicide rates amongst men are, I think, like four or five times higher than that amongst women. The leading cause of death in men under 35 in the United States is suicide. Not the coronavirus, not all the things that can actually kill you in life. It’s us killing ourselves.

[00:53:46] That’s the leading cause of death in men under 35. So yeah, I love working with men. That’s really my passion. That’s really where that’s designed, and there’s such a need there. And for me, the quintessential client is above all, somebody that’s ready. Somebody that’s like, “What I’m doing isn’t working. I need help. I want to talk to somebody.” Unless you’re really at that place, that means you’re still unconscious to a point where you’re not aware of what’s really going on, and you’re not coachable at that point. And for me, I like to think that I’m great at what I do.

[00:54:29] You know, I like to think that my experience and who I am has led me to a point to be very, very good at what I do. So I get to be a little choosy, and I like that. So for me, I like working with people I like being around. Off the top, you’re a cool dude.

[00:54:45] I want to be around you. You have an interesting take on stuff, right? So that. [And] somebody that’s already successful, which means everything that that means. Somebody that already has money, somebody that already has proven to themselves that they know that they’re really good.

[00:55:02] You have accomplishments. You have highlights that you can really look back and lean on. Like, “Oh yeah, I know what I know.” somebody that I like being around, somebody that’s already successful, and yet they’re unhappy. They’re full  of stress. They’re full of anxiety. They’ve got a low self-image. They’ve got lots of self-doubt, and on the surface, they have it all: beautiful wife, beautiful kids, probably run their own business. They’re a leader. They’re an artist or an athlete. I recently had my first professional athlete come on board, and I’m fucking stoked about that.

[00:55:36] But there’s also this underlying pain. That’s an ultimate tragedy. You’re super cool. You got everything to offer. You’re already successful, and yet you can’t see it. You’re not seeing yourself the way that everybody around you – for the most part – is seeing.

[00:55:58] That’s who I want to work with.

[00:56:02] Nick Schenck: I’ve noticed that more and more in recent years about people who on paper, they got everything, but there’s still something that’s not right. Kevin Love, he’s a player for the Cavs, and he’s been pretty open about his issues with anxiety, and give a big credit to K. Love.

[00:56:21] Scott McElroy: Absolutely. He’s a Hall of Famer.

[00:56:23] Nick Schenck: Great player. Played for the T-Wolves. Was sad to see him leave.

[00:56:27] Scott McElroy: Bro was a double-double machine.

[00:56:28] Nick Schenck: Yeah. Great stroke from three. But [he has] a huge contract with the Cavs and, has made an amazing career for himself, but he suffers from anxiety and this just goes to show that people that you may think have everything figured out, great career, great life, etc., they’re not immune to the day-to-day adversities that we all face.

[00:56:55] Scott McElroy: Not at all, right. And yet they’ve checked all the boxes. Millions, fame, women, sex, relationships, whatever. And yet that emotional experience is, like the way that we feel is ultimately the thing, right?

[00:57:15] When we say, I’m successful or you’re successful, that just describes a feeling. We just use that to describe a feeling. Like that’s what success is. That’s what true success is, is like you’re happy with yourself. You’re happy with your days. You’re happy with your whole life.

[00:57:30] Whether you’re Kevin Love or DeMar DeRozan or like any other professional athlete out there or not, you might’ve checked these boxes, but internally, you feel sad, you anxiety, you feel stressed. And that’s because as a whole, as a society, we’ve been so – especially men – we’ve been so uneducated and shunned and really lied to about our emotional experience.

[00:57:54] Anybody listening, especially my guys, you have anxiety? That’s an indicator that there’s an unmet emotional need there. That’s what that means. And like a little four-year-old that’s kind of like nagging on your pant leg that wants to be held. The more we suppress that emotional need and say like, “Get away from me kid.” And push them  away. The more that anxiety and that stress is going to flare up. Because anxiety is this indicator from your body that like, “Hey, I need something.” And the moment that you give yourself permission to have your emotional experience. And to be like, “Oh damn, like this thing on the day that I was born, or when I was five years old, or when I was 10 years old, or 15 years old,” or whatever. 

[00:58:38] There’s this unmet emotional need, even if it’s from 30 fucking years ago. It doesn’t go anywhere until it’s healed. And yet the moment that you pick up that little toddler that’s nagging at you and you hold them, meaning you give yourself permission to have your feelings with a safe person. That anxiety will start to release.

[00:59:03] Nick Schenck: Do you think that you could do exactly what you’re doing in any city? Or do you think there’s like an openness to what you’re offering in Austin that maybe wouldn’t exist other places?

[00:59:13] Scott McElroy: Undoubtedly, yeah. No, to your question of like, I don’t think being in every other market is going to be the Austin market as a mental health professional. Especially me. I very much view myself as a rebel practitioner. Like the only letters after my name are N M D, which is Not a Medical Doctor. Austin is super open. It’s super tolerant.

[00:59:44] Amongst the whole spectrum of issues, Austin has consistently opened its arms to every community that has been othered and suppressed and oppressed like over and over again. I think the city has got a long way to go – like there’s a lot of ground we can make up in a racial sense. But the LGBT community, the mental health community. I certainly wouldn’t want to be doing what I’m doing in another market. I’m super, super stoked to be here.

[01:00:15] Nick Schenck: Where can people find more information about the services you offer, and talk about lthe programs people can get on?

[01:00:21] Scott McElroy: Yeah. So what’s unique about having an executive coach like me is, we’re on a retainer basis. I’ll work with you on a minimum of a three-month basis, and really going from there.

[01:00:33] Like either going a full half-year, or really just doing annual, especially if you’re a business owner, you’re a 35- or 40-year-old man, and you have a family, you have kids. You run a business and you carry a lot of responsibility across the board at home and at the office as well. It’s kind of something you want to keep in your pocket at all times.

[01:00:52] So for me, you can learn more at ScottMcElroy.co. You can learn more on Instagram. I’m pretty active there @ScottCMcElroy. I post, I share, and for me, I also enjoy sharing myself.

[01:01:13] And from my own clients, that’s been a big piece of feedback that I continue to get that like, “You sharing your experience makes it easier for me to share with you.” As opposed to just like walking into a therapist office and being like, “Okay, talk.” Yup. It’s like, “Bro, I don’t know you.”

[01:01:30] Nick Schenck: It’s funny, because when I went to see my therapist – I’m just naturally kind of an inquisitive, curious person – and there’s a couple times she was like, “Hey, this isn’t a two-way thing. I’m asking you questions,” and stuff like that. And I can imagine, having you as an executive coach, the back-and-forth would be valuable because you’ve been in a lot of different scenarios and situations, had highs and lows that I think make you credible when you give advice, because you’ve been there.

[01:01:59] And I think that’s something different that you offer that I couldn’t get at a therapist.

[01:02:07] Scott McElroy: Thank you. I appreciate that as well.

[01:02:10] Nick Schenck: She was like, “We’re talking about you, not me.” Well what about your experiences can I apply to mine?

[01:02:18] And maybe that’s why I’m getting into the media business. Talking to other businesses, business owners, because I’m just kind of curious how people got to where they are and what I can learn from them and apply to what I’m doing.

[01:02:30] Scott McElroy: Exactly. Because what’s on the surface isn’t the full story.

[01:02:33] That’s just the tip of the iceberg. In therapy, there’s a thin line between sharing parts of my experience that are valuable for my clients and some that don’t relate. You got to know how to finesse that. You gotta know how to do that.

[01:02:48] But for the most part, being able to be joined in that experience, and to especially just be like, “Oh, I’m not alone. Even this guy who felt this way and was truly as down bad as down bad can be,” You can start to put those pieces back together. You can have major stress. You can have major anxiety. You can have major doubt. And that shit doesn’t kill you. In your mind – especially if you isolate yourself and you’re alone – you will begin to believe that it will kill you. But the more that you share about it, the more you connect on it, the more you realize like, “Oh, this isn’t this big thing. I can just move through this.”

[01:03:28] Nick Schenck: Thanks for joining the podcast, man.

[01:03:30] Scott McElroy: Thank you.

[01:03:31] Nick Schenck: This has been an awesome discussion, and I look forward to bringing you back on in the future.

[01:03:36] Scott McElroy: I appreciate it. Yes, thank you, Nick. I really appreciate it. Super excited for 3rd & Lamar. I’ve got my hat here. I’m excited.